Hobby update for Chaos Daemons

 In addition to my orks, I also have full Blood Angel and Grey Knight armies.  I started an Imperial Guard allied contingent, but have never used it.  I'm not sure when I'll pick it up again.  I just don't have a lot of interest in playing it.  My latest project is a Slaanesh Daemon army.

The list I'm targeting is
1850
350 Be'Lakor
90 Herald, steed, loci of grace, greater
90 Herald, steed, loci of Beguilement
105 Herald, loci of Beguilement, exalted
55 Herald, lesser

250 18 seekers, heartseeker

195 20 Daemonettes, alluress w/lesser
185 20 Daemonettes, alluress
90 10 Daemonettes
90 10 Daemonettes

170 Soul Grinder, MoS, Baleful Torrent
180 Soul Grinder, MoS, Phlegm

Of course this will need some play testing and refining.  I can't decide between using 2 squads of seekers at 20 strong each or more daemonettes.  So far I have Be'lakor and 30 daemonettes painted.


I'm really proud of my Be'Lakor.  He's such a beast.  He can cast shrouding on one of the Soul Grinders then flank them by the daemonette.

He can buff the seekers with invisibility and manage to keep up with them. Since he has shrouded, I may not even need to put him into swoop mode.  If he jinks he has a 2+ cover.

I primed black, drybrushed with slaanesh grey, then a wash of druchii violet.  I highlighted the skin a couple of times and picked out his icon with white.  The armor plates are sycorax bronze which looks really nice with the purple.

My only problem is that he's much smaller than I expected.  That's great for hiding him, but not as impressive on the table.  When I saw the initial model from GW, I was expecting something more akin to the FW greater daemons.

I'm undecided on bases for all of my models.  I like the idea of using ruined eldar temples, but haven't spend the money on any resin bases yet,

I've finished 30 daemonettes.  It took me about 6 test models before I came to a process & color scheme I like.  I have another 50 I want to complete.  Each squad of 10 has a psuedo alluress and 1 model with a magnetized arm for a banner or instrument.

The skin is a Violet wash then Slaanesh & light grey drybrush. Xereus on the hair with reddish highlights and a crimson wash.  The claws are a crimson wash then a light violet wash.  Dark grey on the armor then using secret weapon armor wash, picking out some highlights with a lighter grey and bronze.  The horns/toes are Celestra Grey and eyes are Temple guard blue.

They look good in person.  I'm trying my best not to repeat the body/claws/head combo.  I'm sure I'll duplicate at some point, but so far so good.

This is only 2 of the heralds I have.  Another 2 I didn't take a picture of.  Each of them have different heads and claw combos.  Mostly the same process as the daemonettes, but I spent more time on the gems and the cloak is purple with red on the inside.  I wish there were more options for poses.

I have 2 soul grinders.  One of them is primed and ready to start painting.  The other is on my desk now awaiting cleanup and assembly.  I have not figured out how I want to paint those yet, so I keep painting daemonettes until I make a decision.

I have 5 seekers so far, with 10 more ordered that I'll pick up this week.  I'll buy another 5.  I think I'll make 2 of them into heralds.  I'd prefer to use the seekers from the exalted chariot, but don't want to buy the kit. I have the riders for the first 5 painted, but haven't figured out how to paint the seekers yet.

I have one daemon prince primed, but I'm not sure if I want to use him in my latest lists and he keeps getting pushed out further.  Also, I don't really like the model.

Eventually, I'd like to fill out with more seekers and another daemon prince.  I'm holding off on a keeper of secrets until creature caster is selling their pincer or spider daemons.

Eventually, I'd like some fiends, but they're not terribly good and I don't like the models.  The finecast is terribly expensive for what it is.  I haven't found alternate models I like yet.

Orks vs. Space Wolves 1500pts

Unfortunately, I didn't take pictures.  It won't take long to recount the game though as it only lasted 2 rounds.

Pre-game

I ended up bringing my FU troops list

1500 pts Orks
125 warboss, bike, klaw, Da finkin Kap, BP
75 Painboy, bike, orderly
385 Nob Biker Mob banner, bp, 3 klaws, 3 BC
202 8 Warbikers, 1 Nob w/PK & BP
90 3 Deffkoptas
111 5 Lobbas, 3 gretchin, 4 runts
210 15 lootas
210 15 lootas
46 12 Grots, 1 runtherd & hound
46 12 Grots, 1 runtherd & hound

LaRon ran his wolfkin list with Vindicator support.
1500 Space Wolves
Wolf Lord on mount, runic armor, thunderhammer, storm shield, other stuff
Canis Wolfborn
10 Fenrisian  wolves
10 Fenrisian  wolves
Vindicator w/dozer
Vindicator w/dozer
5 Thunderwolf Cavalry
5 Thunderwolf Cavalry
4 Thunderwolf Cavalry

Things started out well enough.  I got the move through cover warlord trait so I didn't end up killing myself with dangerous terrain and the strategic trait that causes 3 pinning test (the squads of TWC, all passed).  He rolled the FNP trait, which ended up saving him two wounds over the course of the game.

Deployment

We had a maelstrom mission that didn't matter because there was almost nothing left after the 2nd turn and we called it, but it was dawn of war deployment.
The Vindicators were off center on each side with a squad of wolves and the wolf lord dead center.  The other two TWF squads were at the edges.  The other wolves tried to provide cover for one of the vindicators in case I siezed.

I deployed 2nd, trying to hide everything from the vindicators.  The lootas were in the corners opposite the TWC, the lobbas slightly off center and the bikes in front of the lobbas.  The nobz were dead center, but slightly back with the koptas in front of them.  I scout moved them up behind some terrain to block LoS.

Round 1

I didn't seize and unfortunately, ended up being in range of the vindicator, losing 2 BC nobz after failing both jink rolls.  The wolves and lord were able to pull off a turn 1 charge since my koptas weren't as hidden as I would have liked apparently.  The wolves whiffed, koptas killed a couple, but the lord insta-gibbed them (this is going to be a theme) for first blood.

My turn, the lootas blew up the vindicator that killed the nobz in retribution, unfortunately, there was a squad of TWC right in front of them.  The other vindicator was showing av13, so I elected to shoot at the TWC in front of them after popping the grots out to screen the lootas from assault.  Managed to kill 3 of the squad after rolling well with 3 shots each and 11 wounds.  The jinking nobz still managed to kill a few wolves and the biker boyz and warboss killed a TWC then the lobbas contributed another TWC kill.  I was able to get off both charges.  Other than losing my deffkoptas, things were going almost exactly as I wanted.  This is where things going my way ended.

The nob assault did wipe out the wolves.  The Lord was in a challenge with a boss nob, brought the hammer down and killed 3 nobz (with no saves or FNP).  Some wounds from the nobz did carry over and he either saved (storm shield) or passed FNP.  The nobz & painboy ended up running but at least didn't get swept.  The bikerboyz nob was in a challenge with Canis who caused two wounds, no saves, bye-bye Nob.  The warbikers under weight of 15 TWC attacks lost just 2 guys, but flailed back helplessly and ineffectively.  The Warboss krumped 3.  I lost the assault, failed morale, but with the bosspole reroll stayed in combat.

Round 2

The lootas got smashed by the vindicator, failed morale, but stayed on the table, barely.  The other lootas killed 2 TWC in overwatch.  The remaining 2 charged and killed 4 lootas, then swept them (would have still been fearless before).  The squad of fenrision wolves on their own lost 2 to overwatch from the nobz, but the nobz failed their Ld7 test (not eligible for mob rule) and were destroyed for failing to regroup.  The other thunderwolves ran over the speed bump grots easily.  The Wolf Lord managed to get into the other combat.  I challenged with the Warboss, Canis accepted, did no wounds, and was doubled out by the warboss .  The boyz flailed helplessly again, were murdered more by the TWC then obliterated by the Lord.  Somehow combat was tied.

My turn two, the lootas fell off the board, the other grots hid, and the lobbas killed the remaining fenrisians.  The final assault saw the Lord put three wounds on the warboss, with none to the lord in return (my kingdom for a storm shield warboss).   The remaining bikes were swept and that was it.  With only a squad of grots and the lobbas left vs 2 squads of 2 TWC and a wolf Lord, it was over.

Conclusion

• Regular bikers are no threat in CC against anything assault oriented.  After the first round strength 3 sucks, even with 3 attacks.  They can't go toe to toe with other T5 armies (white scars with hit and run are much better and they're troops).
• Morale was a problem all game.  Losing 3 warbikers (18pts/each) to 2 TWC (50 pts/each) is a trade I'll make every time.  Unfortunately, the assault results say otherwise, and the Ork's low leadership and tendency to get swept means they're losing most combats and maybe even the whole squad.  Small squads don't have the numbers to do anything, big squads risk killing themselves with mob rule.
• Not having Cybork hurt, a lot.  I'm not sure how an assault army is supposed to handle a beatstick character.  In the nobs versus Worf Lord, he killed 3, with cybork I would have had a ~70% chance to save one, tie combat and get another crack at him, or at least hold him off from joining the fight with the warboss.  If the warboss had cybork, he would have also had a ~70% chance of saving 1 and living for another turn.
• Challenges still suck for Orks.  Anything with a power weapon will kill them before they get a chance to swing.  Now they'll get to start killing the rest of the unit too.  Remind me why an Ork would honor a challenge instead of just getting to the krumpin'?
• My grots were purely wasted points.  They never once threatened anything.  Conscripts are substantially better at 3pts each with a lasgun, frag grenades, +1S, +1T, +1I, 5+ .  Termagants at 4pts are also substantially better.  There is no point wasting 5pts for a squig hound or adding extra bodies to mess around with the wound ratio.  Either 35pts for 10 to fulfill a requirement or 62 for 20 bodies as a mobile cover save.  I think in most cases, I'd rather just spend the extra 25 for a min squad of choppa boyz.  They are a little harder to kill, but at least have a decent chance to kill something at some point.  Since everything scores now, it's hard to justify them even for that purpose.  Realistically, Objective Secured does nothing for them.  Anything that can contest them can wipe them out.
• Lobbas are very solid for their points.  At 3 for 75, they just didn't do enough, but at 90 for 5 with ammo runts making them more reliable, I think they're a good value.

Rules missteps

1. I completely forgot about 'ere we go.  I nearly failed both charges as both were really close.  It might have helped me get more HoW hits too.  
2. I didn't roll for Mob Rule on my 2nd squad of lootas, which would have helped them stay in the fight, but wouldn't have made any difference in the game.
3. My warboss should only have had 4 attacks, plus 1 on the charge.  I rolled for 6 on the charge.  I forgot that the attack squig only gives a re-roll not a plus 1 attack.  I didn't take it anyways, although it would have really helped me.  I should consider adding it back.
4. Forgot that biker boys have 4 attacks on the charge.  I've been running shoota boyz for so long, it just slipped my mind.
5. When the warboss and bikers lost combat against the TWC, it should have been a tied combat.  I counted the boyz as 2 wounds, but forgot to count the TWC as 2 also.  The bosspole reroll was a 1, so I managed to live anyways.
6. Not necessarily a mistake, but the BAO FAQs says to measure start and end by measuring 3d space.  We were measuring going up and down terrain.  Sounds too much like the advantage jump packs are supposed to have, but it would have made things easier.

Other observations

• Our FLGS terrain is setup to be area terrain, which doesn't exist anymore.  There was nary a cover save to be had.  This was especially difficult for my lootas, since I knew they would be a target.
• I only passed 1 morale test the entire game, super sad face. Ld 7 sucks.
• Mob Rule didn't cause me to kill myself because I didn't take any boyz, but it also didn't help me much either.
• Warbike dakka is underrated, 3 TL Str5 ap5 can put the hurt on.
• I rolled well with my Lootas. The 3 times I got to shoot the squads I rolled 3 shots, 3 shots, 2 shots (overwatch).
• I didn't get to attempt a single FNP with my nob bikers.  Not as many lists will be able to pack this much Str10 at 1500, but my nobz might as well have had 1 wound, the 2nd wound only caused me to lose combat that much quicker.
• I miss Coteaz.  The extra chance to sieze always made my opponents deploy more conservatively.

Mob Rule and bosspoles

If they had simply left mob rule alone, this codex would be a success.  Instead (like instinctive behaviour or daemonic instability) GW seems to think assault is too over powered and needs some limiting factor.  Nothing comes to mind specifically for shooting armies as a limiting factor.  Gets hot (especially on a marine) doesn't count.  Morale affects Orks just as much (though not Tyranids and Daemons except in the cases of ID and DI).

It's not the fact that you kill yourself (which also sucks), but that morale is so easy to fail.  Nobs don't even give out Ld8 like a proper upgrade character.  Outside of HQs (or Lords of War) you can't even get Ld8.  Hell, some of the HQs are still Ld7.  This means you fail tests all the time forcing you to roll on the .

Cyborks

The leadership bonus is also gone.  For those that don't remember, you could substitute your leadership for the number of orks in your unit and at 11 and above you were fearless.  Fearless and Ld10, don't forget.  Leadership tests or attacks that wound on leadership are now more deadly.  Psychic Shriek is very common now and extremely deadly to Nobz and meaganobz who cannot get an invuln.  Fear is a leadership test, not morale, so mob rule doesn't help you here at all.  Abyssal staves formally wounded on 6s, now wound on 2s.

Tank shocks are a very valid tactic against orks.  Make them take a Ld test on 7, if they pass they're bunched up, if they fail they either kill some of their own guys and then bunch up or kill some of their own guys and fall back.

Unlike marines, if you fall back you don't automatically regroup.  If you are above 25% of your starting unit size, it's just a normal leadership (usually on 7)  test not a morale test so mob rule doesn't help you here.  If you're below 25% you can only recover on double 1s.  Even if you do recover, you can only move 3", cannot run, can only shoot snap shots, and cannot assault.  If you end  up failing, it will be 2 turns before you're back where you started.  This hurts a lot.

Bosspoles abound

 Just as big of a kick in the nuts was the change to bosspole.  If BPs allowed a morale reroll before mob rule that would be helpful.  Unfortunately, it only allows you reroll the mob rule table.  I'm not sure it is always worth it now.  It does let you reroll the 1 result on the chart so if you're not in combat you can still pass the morale check.

The bosspole does help you if you lose an assault.  For instance if you lose an assault by 5 to take you from 14 guys to 9, you would have been testing leadership on a 4.  Even with a reroll you only had a 30% chance to pass.  Now, if you fail you roll on the mob rule table, re-roll to try for a 1-3 result giving you a 75% chance of staying in combat (at the cost of D6 str4 hits).

Luckily, 7th seems to favor MSU.  I think this may be the way to go.  Make your opponents shoot grots and put your points into a lot of small units that give you tactical flexibility.  Especially if your run multiple CADs.

Dakka in multiple CADs

Most of the tournaments I've seen look like they're allowing 2 detachments.  That would be 1 primary and another ally/formation/detachment.  With that in mind, it's time to start thinking about 2 detachments for orks so I can go max dakka again.


1850 - 2 CADs with max heavy support
1077pts CAD 
125 warboss, bike, klaw, Da finkin kap, BP
202 8 Warbikers, 1 Nob w/PK & BP
165 20 choppa boyz (1 rokkit) w/Nob bp & pk
165 20 choppa boyz (1 rokkit) w/Nob bp & pk
140 10 Lootas
140 10 Lootas
140 10 Lootas

773pts CAD 2
75 Painboy, bike
170 20 choppa boyz (2 rokkits) w/Nob bp & pk
46 12 grots w/runtherd and hound
111 5 Lobbas, 3 gretchin, 4 runts
147 4 Traktor Kannons, 5 gretchin 4 runts
174 5 Kustom Mega Kannons, 3gretchin 5 runts
50 Aegis


Once again, I'm doubling up on Strategic traits hoping for master of ambush.  If I can get first turn with infiltrate and this much dakka backing me up then I feel like I can take on most anything (except knights).

Why 30 lootas, not 45?  I don't have 45 lootas.  I only have 30 painted and another 7 primed.  I feel like I could use the 210 points as a whole other other rather than taking each squad from 10 to 15.

I love the traktor kannons because it's inevitable you'll see fliers at 1850 and they are unquestionably the best option in the codex. Str8, ap3 against ground targets isn't ideal.  I could be convinced to drop to 3, but I used to run hyperios defense batteries which were always twin linked and they barely got the job done.  Against av12, they were spotty.  The added immobilization for TKs will make up for that, so I'm just trying to maximize getting glances.

I'm waffling on the 3rd artillery spot with Kustom Mega Kannons.  I love that it is str8, but don't love that I have to burn a runt to prevent gets hot.  I'm also worried about scattering into my own guys.  I could save 60+ points and go with just kannons since they have the flexibility to be single shots, but losing ap2 is pretty big.

The ground presence is pretty decent with a squad of biker boyz joined by the warboss and painboy then running behind them 3 squads of boyz.  I'm starting to feel like 20 is the minimum for choppa boyz with a nob.

The artillery is certainly higher quality than what I was putting out in 6th with the increase in unit size and options, but I really miss my shoota boyz.  with 30 @180 points they were ultra reliable until they went below 10, then you just hid them on an objective.  Now they require a nob with bosspole.  Otherwise mob rule will cause them to fail too many morale checks.  Now we're talking 224 pts over 180.  Now they're too inefficient for the points.

With biker boyz being cheaper, I think they're better as a bodyguard unit to the warboss.  The boyz follow behind for a 2nd wave.  Plenty of dakka to pop vehicles and 2+ armor.  AV13/14 is still a problem, but with a nob in all the advancing squads at least I have more squads that can harm them.  Necrons are still scary.  The fliers aren't as a big of a concern, but high volume of shots (damn tesla), rear armor 11, and reanimation protocols makes for a very long day.

Latest list building idea

My previous lists included troops because they were required but grots don't contribute  anything beyond holding an objective , acting as a meat shield for SAGs, or mobile cover.

This is my attempt at making a troop focused list.

1495 Useful troops

125 warboss, bike, klaw, Da finkin kap, BP
50 Painboy
385 Nob Biker Mob, 3 PK, 3 BC, banner, bp
340 29 ard boys, Nob w/BP & PK
70 10 Shoota boyz
70 10 Shoota boyz
64 18 grots w/runtherd and hound
140 10 Lootas
140 10 Lootas
111 5 Lobbas, 3 gretchin, 4 runts

A squad of 30 ard boyz might be a liability, but I think with a painboy, they'll be pretty hard to remove, especially with the nob bikers absorbing the first wave of fire.  Importantly, I think that they'll also distract from the lootas and lobbas.

The shoota boyz strategically provide some firepower, but are there to hold objectives and hopefully live long enough to make a difference.

Warlord traits can really help this list.  I'm rolling on Strategic (with re-rolls) and hoping to get master of ambush to infiltrate 3 units (nobz & ard boyz primarily.).  Roll Da Finkin' Kap trait first and if I get MoA then I will roll on Command or maybe double down in Strategic since there are so many good things there.

Heavy armor is going to be a problem.  There are few ork lists that don't have a problem with it in general.  The Nobz will make a beeline for any Land Raider it sees.  The Warboss can split off to take on 2 heavy targets at once, which I would want against Astra Militarum or Waveserpent lists.  Necron lists are going to be a problem.  I'm going to need to rely on assault with their AV13 vehicles.

Ork Long Range Dakka

I have yet to see any Ork builds straight from the codex I'm excited about.  I usually like to compare it to standard lists I bring with my other armies (Blood Angels, Grey Knights) and consider how I would have to change my list to handle it and what would give me a hard time.  Without relying on multiple FOC or formations from the ghaz supplement, I have yet to see an Ork list that scares me.

One list I had fun running in 6th was a max-dakka list with Nob bikers.  For the dakka base I would take 3x10 lootas, 3xbig  guns squads, SAG with grots, ADL w/Quad manned by more grots.  That's 10 backfield shooty units with a 4+cover (2+ if I go to ground) for only around 950 (depending on how I ran the gunz).  A squad of nob bikers with a warboss would absorb the first few rounds of shooting and shoota boyz on foot in 30 strong squads would represent the 2nd wave.  MSU shooty backed by blobs (boyz) and a resilient & fast deathstar (nobz).  This list was fairly scary for orks, especially if I went first.

Grot overload

Orks can not overwhelm their opponents with long range Dakka in this codex.  Most units have mid range 24" guns or less.  Lootas, Mek Gunz, and SAG are pretty much it when it comes to long range.  Unfortunately, since Lootas and Gunz now share heavy support so we're limited to 3 in this slot and nothing long range in elite or fast attack.  The Quad gun only snap fires against ground targets, losing substantial utility.  Really hard choice have to be made for our dakka support.

30 Lootas

Lootas themselves got cheaper, though mob rule made them less resilient.  Mek gunz are hardy, but very susceptible to morale and assault.  Lobbas and Kannons are as good as ever, the Traktor kannon is A+ air support, The Kustom Mega Kannon at Str8 AP2 is being overlooked.  The smash gun is an improvement over the Zzap gun, and I can see merits in the bubble chucka (though I am unlikely to ever use it myself).  With 2 FOC, I can see myself taking 3 squads of loots, Lobbas, Traktor Kannons, and Kustom Mega Kannons.  Of course if I do that, then I'm likely going to get obliterated by a 6 vindicator list or any other list that can spam even better units.

Custom Zzap guns built from BW kit

We'll explore exactly what works best for dakka unit by unit in a post coming soon, but the end result is that we're limited in what we can bring.  We can only support a very small tail with the majority of the army pushing forward into assault. We could also ignore the firebase completely and just try to push to midfield and control.  Of course, our vehicles and infantry are not resilient, so that's very hard to do.  2 Manz in BW, 2 squads of flash gitz in BW, Tankbustas, etc.

There is marked lack of armourbane in the codex outside of boom bombs, but that has always been the case.  Outside of mek guns, very few ranged weapons are ap1 or 2 so vehicle killing has to be through hull point attrition or assault. The kustom mega blasta and pistol are very underwhelming. Against a target in cover or with a 5++ you're almost as likely to kill yourself (13.8%) as you are your opponent (18.5%).   The odds go down dramatically to kill yourself if you are in eavy or mega armor but 1 shot BS2 weapons can hardly be counted on for my liking.

The only other platform for these guns are on walkers.  The flaw in this is that you'll be sacrificing speed (i.e. running) for fairly underwhelming firepower.  I'm not considering them since they all occupy the heavy support slot and you can get more efficient fire in other units.

Ol' Rustbucket on wings

This leaves the Dakkajet.  It has 36" range plus the mobility of a flyer to get the shots where you need to be.  It went up 15pts for the same configuration and lost substantial firepower during a waaagh at the same time.  It was decent at stripping hp off of av10/11 flyers (night scythes, ST), but inefficient against av12 (SR, Helldrake, Valkyrie) and middling against FMC (except Harpy/Hive Crone it would rock them).  Combining this with the FOC that let's you Waagh every turn would have been pretty sick.  It does offer decent range and fire output nonetheless.  I initially dismissed it when the codex came out (I thought it needed a cost reduction) I'm coming around to it again. It's going to be tough to compete with 5 deffkoptas though for roughly the same price.

Just as rockets in general get worse (cannot explode, except open topped), the Orks can now mass them.  Tankbustas are very efficient but need support.  A KFF probably won't help that much.  A trukk is really flimsy and mob rule will hurt  Dedicating a battlewagon to them requires using two slots for one purpose, which I don't like.  One of the few units that need a nob, but not a PK. Was the option for 'eavy armor just too OP?

Magnetized buzzsaw

Aside from the rare hit from a Trukk, Battlewagon, or boyz squad rokkits can be massed in FA.  Both Deffkoptas and buggies come stock with TL rokkits.  They can move 12" and fire effetively giving them a 36" range.  I prefer Deffkoptas to the 2 hp buggy even at 5 pts cheaper.  I have bad luck with terrain rolls and the risk of immobilizing themselves is too great.  The most important consideration is that I have 6 Deffkoptas already and only 1 buggy.  Buggies are much uglier and looks like it hasn't been updated since the rogue trader days.

Definitely should have clipped the magazine

Assault is one of the more effective ways to break armor. At least tankbusta bombs and kill saws have armourbane in assault (plus a wierdboy who perils and rolls a 6 on the chart and passes his leadership, yippee).  This means Powerklaws and Big Choppas on Nobz.

  

The SAG is a quintessential Orky 'fun' item.  A 60" large blast template is no joke. As a new player, the first time I rolled double 6s I took out 2 Zoanthropes and a Tyrannofex in one glorious blast.  It has ordnance, but given the variability of the strength you shouldn't be firing at anything but squadrons of av10.  It's real potential is the AP2 large blast.  Now you can take up to 3 ammo runts to help with BS2.  It's cheaper baseline makes this an appealing option.  It's hard to compete with the painboy though (assuming mandatory Warboss).

It's clear that GW doesn't want Orks to sit back and shoot.  We can have a few units sitting back shooting, with rokkits in mid field support and a charging assault wave that tries to hit everything turn 2.

Warlord traits for Orks

I've been taking a hard look at the warlord trait choices available to Orks.  What works best for your list won't work for every list, but I think there are certainly standout possibilities.

Ork unique characters, except the Mad Dok, suck so I will usually rolling on the tables. I prefer to take the combined arms detachment which gives the underrated rule that you get to re-roll your warlord trait (as well as OS).  Combine this will Da Finkin's Kap for only 10 pts and the improvement to the book tables in 7th and they should come in handy, provided you remember that you actually have them.  There were many times in 6th where my Warlord trait was useless and I never thought twice about them once the game started.

Ork traits

1. Warlord gains the Waaagh! special rule, warbosses' Waagh gives fearless until next turn - If you elect to make a painboy your warlord, you can still get a Waaag, which is a nice bonus.  Making units fearless.  Since Waaagh now affects more units than it used to, fearless for a turn will be very important.  You could even consider saving it until a turn when you have multiple units falling back.  It gives you an extra tool and a turn of reliability.
2. Warlord, and all Ork units within 12" of him, re-roll failed Morale and Pinning tests - An old style boss pole, but with range.  Orks are still cowardly gits that succumb to fear with no re-roll.  Great for an assaulting warboss or a sit back SAG gun.
3. Warlord, and all Ork units within 12" of him, can re-roll all the dice for Run moves or charge range - For sheer utility this is the top choice for me but notably doesn't allow fear tests to be rerolled - This should have just been fleet to make things simpler, but instead is slightly worse.  Since 'ere we go is already pretty decent, this doesn't have as much utility as I would like.
4. Warlord can re-roll one failed To Hit or To Wound roll each turn - Most valuable on a warboss. Combine this with an attack squig and you could be getting 2 rerolls in to hit in assault. It might be nice for a SAG too, essentially a free ammo runt per turn.
5. Warlord can re-roll one failed armour or invulnerable saving throw each turn - The go to choice for mega armored warbosses, but even biker bosses will use it to tank wounds.  The loss of cybork 5+++ really hurts here, since there is no way to get an invuln so any power weapon wounds won't benefit from this and you just have to rely on just your FNP (if available).  It would be nice if you could use it for cover saves too.  It's quite kunnin to hide behnd appropriate terrain.
6. Warlord has +1 Strength -  This just isn't that useful.  A warboss is usually going to take a PK anyways, so moving from S5 to S6 is a waste.  I guess you're still S10 even if enfeebled, but this is so situational that you don't waste time thinking about it.  For a Warboss with BC, you move from S7 to S8, I guess that helps, but strongly consider a Klaw and just reroll this result.  It wouldn't be the end of the world if I got this for a painboy or big mek since they're both S4, pushing the Big Mek to S10 with a Klaw and giving the Painboy S5 poison, allowing a reroll against T4, which is nice, but there are plenty of better traits.

The first two options are very solid.  Both of the re-roll traits work well with Da Lucky Stixx, giving you an extra free reroll per turn before you kill yourself.  They work well enough on their own. The psuedo-fleet isn't bad, but the +1 strength is a real dud.  As it stands, it's a pretty solid option for nearly any warlord choice.

Command Traits

1. Friendlies w/in 12” use Warlord's Ld - useful with a warboss at Ld9 since Mob Rule no longer ups leadership values.  Useless with a weirdboy or painboy as they are only Ld7
2. Enemy units within 12” use lowest Ld - I've never found this to be very useful, but on a warboss assaulting in could break a unit or two that wouldn't normally break.
3. Friendlies w/in 12” have Move through cover - I would love to get this on my biker boss just to speed the game up ignoring all those dangerous terrain tests.
4. Friendlies w/in 12” add 1” run and charge - Combos well with Waagh, but doesn't add range to turbo boosts
5. Friendlies w/in 12” re-roll 1s to hit shooting - not too useful with Orks at BS2.  Maybe on a Big Mek with Sag near lootas and mek guns.  Orks only gain about 5% with this so we're looking at 1 extra hit per 10 shoota boys.  Weakest option.
6. Friendlies w/in 12” re-roll 1s to hit in assault - now we're cooking.  Especially juicy with the waagh banner or lucky stixx.  May lead to overkill though. Not as flexible as the Ork re-roll to hit or wound, but comparable.

I like this table for a biker boss with everything having at least some utility except #5 (bc dakkaguns are already TL).  I'd hope for #3 then #6, #4, #1, then #2.

 Personal Traits

1. Warlord has counter-attack - At least counter attack extends to the whole squad.  Can help mitigate a failed charge., but you still lose the FC bonus.
2. Warlord has Furious Charge - useless, all Orks have FC already
3. Warlord has outflank - It gives you additional deployment options, but you're usually better starting on the board and charging forward to close the gap quickly.  An outflanking squad of ard boyz in hammer and anvil would be nice.
4. +1 VP for each char warlord slays in a challenge - A warboss with this is nice since it prevents the opponent from feeding you a useless Sgt.  On a painboy or big mek it is pretty useless.
5. Warlord has FNP - Useful if you decide not to bring a painboy, but FNP is something Orks already do well.  Maybe if it improved FNP it would be better.
6. Warlord has Fearless and It Will Not Die - Hot diggity, gimme.  Fearless nobs, fearless boyz, fearless any squad is good stuff

I love #6 with #1 and #4 being decent enough.  However, with #2, 3, and 5 bringing very limited utility, I just don't see myself rolling on this table ever to minimize risking a dead trait.

Strategic Traits

Since you now know if you're going first or second before you roll, this table is even better than before and gives you some good options

1. All units have Move Through Cover and Stealth in ruins - The revamp of terrain means ruins are going to be everywhere.  Bikes can now assault up terrain too.  Depends on the board obviously.
2. Can activate Night Fighting and have Night Vision - Very useful to help mitigate alpha strikes.  Range isn't a factor anymore, so it will even help against drop pod armies.
3. Warlord and 3 non vehicles have Infiltrate - Invaluable to foot squads to ensure 2nd turn charges.  It can really help to close the gap. Plus you get outflank.  There are lot of uses for this.  It can even be something as simple as waiting to deploy your lootas until after you've seen where your opponent put his armor.  This can make a unit of grots into scout move blockers against bikes or flesh hounds.
4. Add +1 to sieze, can re-roll reserves (while alive) - The sieze bonus is nice, but I don't usually hold much in reserve with Orks.  You can reroll successes so it can be used to keep grots off the table.
5. Opponent has -1 to reserve rolls - Some opponents aren't going to care about this, but it can help spread out a 2nd wave of drop pods or fliers.  Has value if you go first or 2nd.  If first you'll subtly affect your opponents deployment decisions.  Could be even better going 2nd since your opponent will have already committed units to reserve.
6. Choose 3 units to take a pinning test their 1st turn - Pretty sweet deal against Tau with their low leadership or other Orks to maybe cause some early mob rule wounds.  Since pinned units cannot snap fire anymore, it gives you a chance to suppress some enemies.  Won't have any effect against Daemons, pure bike armies, mech forces, Knights, Necrons, or Tyranids in synapse.  That still leaves a lot of solid armies and options that you'll want it against.  It could be just enough to disrupt someone's plan

Taking Da Finkin' Kap gives you a roll on this table and I plan to take it whenever I can. Almost everything has utility.

Seen above, a dead warboss

I will most likely still be taking a warboss on bike until I can come up with something better (like a Mega Armoured warboss like this badboy).  In addition to my strategic trait, I'll probably roll on the Ork table and reroll hoping for one of the first two options.  Command is still good and a 2nd roll on Strategic is a possibility.  It's worth knowing and thinking about it depending on your opponent.  Lists that have a lot of flexibility built into them benefit the most.

Note that any character can now be the warlord, please consider giving your runtherd's their due.

Worst Units in 40k

This BoLS post was a pretty quick job, but I think they do a decent enough job pointing out some bad units.  I disagree with their exact unit choices though.

• Whirlwind
• Mandrakes
• Necron Flayed Ones
• Blood Angel Scouts
• Gorkanaut
• Morkanaught
• Howling Banshees
• Warpsmith
• Vespids
• Roughriders

The Whirlwind isn't great, but it's only 65 points and brings a Str5 ap4 or Str4 ap5 ignores cover large blast barrage.  It competes with better units, but isn't necessarily bad on it's own.  Now the BA variant is just as bad but costs 90pts and you get fast, which is useless on a whirlwind.  This is 40% premium on a marginal unit. Similarly, Rhinos with Fast at 50pts are terrible.  There's a reason I have never once taken a BA Rhino (razorbacks all the way).

Mandrakes have a cool model and always come up around discussions of least useful units.  No grenades hurts every cc unit but the baleblast seems alright, but you have to earn a pain token first.  Probably not good, but I've played DE so rarely that I can't say I have much experience with their codex.  It's pretty much codex Raider/Ravager/Venom and codex Baron/Beastmaster anyway.  I feel like some of their SC are pretty useless as is the court.

Flayed Ones have reanimation protocols and a 4+ armor so they seem pretty resilient.  If they had some options for a special weapon, I could see this unit being decent enough as infiltrators at 13pts each.  As it is, they are the most useless unit in a very well rounded codex that has aged well.  The offensive output is negligible and could hardly be considered anything more than a slight speed bump.  The definitely belong in the bottom 10.

I will agree with BA scouts though.  More expensive per model and for upgrades and getting Red Thirst instead of Chapter Tactics is a raw deal.  Scout Bikes are bad in general, but the BA ones are only a point cheaper the SM (non-scout) bikes and worse off in general. None of this compares to the floating turd that is the BA Captain. More expensive than the SM variant with no option to take artificer armor, pricier upgrades in general, no FOC swaps, and RT instead of CT.  I suspect they decided not to pick on the BAs because they are a feeble old man at this point and were showing their age more than the last 4 codexes released Orks, IG, Nids, SM.

The Gorkanaught is pretty bad. I kind of like the Deffstorm Mega-Shoota a 3D6 shot S6 ap4 gun.  Even still for 245pts it's offensive output is pretty negligible.  It doesn't have an assault ramp, but I think with only a 6 model capacity you probably are wasting points doing that anyways.  Better to put in burnas and swap 3 for meks to keep the thing rolling along.  It's biggest problem is that it's too damn slow to get anywhere.  Similarly, the Morkanught has the exact same criticisms but it can take a KFF that projects it's 5++, making it and everything around it more resilient. I'd take both over Deff Dreads or Killa Kans though.

Not sure what to say about the Howling Banshees.  I assumed everything in the codex was decent.  A pretty common theme throughout this list so far is CC units that don't have mobility.  Similar to Bloodletters, but slightly worse, Howling Banshees are outclassed by everything else in the codex.

The Warpsmith is another cool model. Since most Chaos vehicles have IWND anyways, there really isn't any reason to pick him over a Lord or Sorceror.  I agree with this choice.

Vespids got better, as did everything else in the codex update last year, but are hardly any good.  GW seems to be a premium on weapons with AP3.  The difference between this unit and many others on the list is that this is actually pretty scary on the table.  Usually Tau have so many threats that you would ignore these guys who have solid mobility and a decent gun.  I would make it a priority to kill them.  They do compete with pathfinders and for points with Riptides and everything in HS.

Finally, the roughriders are just flat out terrible.  A guardsman statline but cavalry and a hunting lance.  The offensive output is pretty low.  At least they have grenades.  Don't forget that awesome Str3 HoW.  They don't even get outflank or scout.  They have no role in the army and will do nothing on the battlefield.

I Agree on Flayed Ones, Warpsmith, Roughriders, and Mandrakes in the bottom. I don't want to pick on the BA codex too much, but their Scout Bike, Whirlwind, Captain, Scouts, and Rhino are bottom tier.  Let's just add one placeholder for "outdated BA units".  To the list, I would add

• Deff Dreads - Slow, weak, in a crowded slot.  No reason to ever take them now, not that there was much reason before.
• GK Brother-Captain - you save 25pts over Grand Master but lose grand strategy, options, and stats.  Overpriced for what he is but still scary.  I've neglected named characters, but Brother Captain Stern may be the worst character in 40k.  He can re-roll one to hit, wound, or saving throw per turn but it grants your opponent a similar reroll on anybody at any point the rest of the game.  It costs you another 50 pts on top of the Brother Captain for this 'privilege'
• Exalted Seeker Chariot of Slaanesh- Chariots are better this edition, but still bad.  Only 2 HP, open topped, AV11/11/10.  Even if they get into combat, they aren't very resilient or offensive.  I'm not sure what role they represent.  It's too bad because the model is balls out spectacular.
• Pyrovore - Still bad after all these years.  A heavy flamer on foot for 40pts.  At least it has 3 wounds.  You can always find a better way to spend the points.
• Ravenwing Darktalon - Doesn't really fill a role.  It doesn't have a gun that can do air to air.  Its weapons are short ranged infantry killers, but overpriced compared to all other fliers.

Any other candidates I missed?

First impression on List Building

Due to my FLGS shutting down, I have yet to get a game in with the new Orks.  All my posts are theoretical.  This Thursday, I have my first match scheduled likely against Space Wolves.  Due to time, I think we'll limit it to 1500pts and try out the Maelstrom missions.  It's time to come up with some lists that will work.

In my list building history post, I mentioned that making minimal changes and adjusting is the best way to proceed with a new edition or codex drops.  This list I came up with for 1850 is my 6th ed list as best I can represent it now.  Trimming back to 1500 gives me something like this:

1500 baseline
125 warboss, bike, klaw, Da finkin kap, BP
75 Painboy, bike
385 6 Nob Bikers, 3 pk, 3 BC, BP, banner
210 30 shoota boys
210 30 shoota boys
49 13 grots w/runtherd and hound
140 10 Lootas
140 10 Lootas
113 5 Lobbas, 3 gretchin, 4 runts
50 Aegis

The loota squads dropped down to 10 and one shoota boy squad got eliminated.  The nobs will still hit hard, but losing Cybork and exhaust cloud means they have to rely on jinking.  On the plus side, more Nobs should make it into combat turn 2 if we can turbo boost first turn.  Luckily, I can't think of anything large blasts that are Str10 and ignores cover so you should be getting your saves against anything that can double you out.

The Aegis is iffy with only 3 squads to protect.  The shoota boyz are equally iffy.  They are there to minimize changes, but I feel like 30 shoota boyz<29 choppa boyz & nob w/PK.

I have a lot of other lists to consider, but they represent significant changes from the existing template.

1500 choppa boyz
125 warboss, bike, klaw, Da finkin Kap, BP
75 Painboy, bike
220 29 Choppa boyz, 1 Nob w/PK & BP
220 29 Choppa boyz, 1 Nob w/PK & BP
179 8 Warbikers, 1 Nob w/PK
150 5 Deffkoptas
111 5 Lobbas, 3 gretchin, 4 runts
210 15 lootas
210 15 lootas

This list swaps Nobz for Bikers, shoota boyz for choppa boyz , and uses the spare points to bring in more lootas and a squad of deffkoptas.  I do like the idea of dropping a couple of lootas for another deffkopta and splitting them into 2x3 for more outflanking goodness.


1500 2xArd boyz and tankbustas
50 Painboy
50 Painboy
230 19 ard boys, Nob w/PK, BP
230 19 ard boys, Nob w/PK, BP
150 9 Tankbustas, 1 Nob w/BP,1  bomb squig
35 Trukk w/ram
202 8 Warbikers, 1 Nob w/PK & BP
202 8 Warbikers, 1 Nob w/PK & BP
120 BW w/ram & BS
120 BW w/ram & BS
111 5 Lobbas, 3 gretchin, 4 runts

This list tries to get in your face right away with 2 BW, a trukk that hides behind them, and 2 squads of warbikers all charging forward.  This is an attempt to focus the list on boyz in heavy armor.  I lose out on Waagh and an extra strategic trait without a warboss.  I could drop the heavy armor on 1 squad for a warboss if needed.


1495 FU troops
125 warboss, bike, klaw, Da finkin Kap, BP
75 Painboy, bike
385 6 Nob Bikers, 3 pk, 3 BC, BP, banner
202 8 Warbikers, 1 Nob w/PK & BP
90 3 Deffkoptas
111 5 Lobbas, 3 gretchin, 4 runts
210 15 lootas
210 15 lootas
46 12 Grots, 1 runtherd & hound
46 12 Grots, 1 runtherd & hound

This one doesn't dance around my disdain for boyz.  It is my first list up top but drops boyz for grots, maxes out the loota squads, adds some deffkoptas, and rounds out the list with regular warbikers.  I'm conceeding objective secured, which may not be the best idea with so many drop pods around.

I'll try to put up a battle report on Friday.

An Ode to the Deffrolla

Fully loaded burnawagon with KFF and burna boyz

 
Woe is the Deffrolla. Once upon a time it was the premier heavy armor killer in the codex.  Feared, respected, and envied by all.  Now it sits as a shell of its former glory.

I don't recall any game in which I took a battlewagon without a Deffrolla.  I considered the BW a 110pt unit that came stock with the deffrolla.  I'm sure some people took a lot of gun options, but it rammed first, delivered the payload 2nd.  The burna wagon was a dream, but would never work out in practice.  It was just too big a threat, holding 15 templates from any point on the hull and no one was dumb enough to stay in range.

A few recollections on moments of glory.  Black Templar, 2011, the mighty wagon deffrollas a landraider, whose contents get out and unload melta into side armor but the KFF deflects it which them proceeds to roll a 2nd LR and a vindicator.  Victory proceeds with a tabling on turn 4. Memories...

Now, oh boy is the Deffrolla is junk, absolute junk.  Probably the biggest nerfing I've ever seen.  From D6 Str10 hits always and 2D6 if death or glory fails to D3 Str 10 ap4 only if death or glory fails.  Since death or glory attacks only occur on the front armor at AV14, this represents a very limited set of low armor value infantry that would even attempt it.  You should never line up a tank shock against melta anyways.  Anything sporting Str10 is very unlikely to try to DoG.

Deffrolla made from sprue, toothpicks, and cardboard roll

A beyond useless upgrade from what was previously a core Ork item that wasn't overpowered given BW durability.  My battlewagons rarely ever survived any game, but 1 or two rounds of rollin' were enough.  It was a standout upgrade in a codex full of useless upgrades (grabbin' klaws, wrecking balls).

The boarding plank was another must take item, for me.  Plow forward with the deffrolla.  If it didn't destroy with the rolla then the PK inside would take care of business in the ensuing assault phase.  The change to make it +2" to charge range is solid, but not for 15pts.  In Trukks, 5 points would have been fine, 10 points for battlewagons.  They seem to understand variable pricing for equipment in some cases like Nob bikers where the upgrade is 27pts, but 25pts for ICs.  This makes sense since a squad with bikes is more valuable than a single bike upgrade (now they should do the same for seer council on jetbikes).  Other times they completely fall down.  Why is a PK on a deffkopta priced the same as a Nob in a squad of warbikes?

The same goes for red paint job.  Although in this case, I think the culprit is that GW couldn't figure out how to write rules for it properly.  I still heard people getting the rules wrong for it a few weeks ago. Plus +1" to turbo boosting isn't worthless, but the utility you get from it is so low, you can always find a better spot to spend points (like a ram).

All the pictures are of my 2 battlewagons. I painted them all myself.  Priming the front black and the rear cab with army painter pure red.  Heavy drybrush all around.  One was line highlighted with silver, the other a metallic blue just to make it different.  They really could use a little touch up work.  Maybe adding some typhus corrosion, some texture paint on the tracks, and a nice rust wash on the rear compartment.

The deffrollas, luckily were not glued on.  One is scratch built and the other is a puppets war rolling slaughter (can you guess which is which?). The big shootas are all removable. I still have magnets on one where I could add the kannon compartment, but scrapped that to make my custom big gunz.

My list building history

My list building for orks has taken dramatic shifts from 5th to 6th and now to 7th.

Let's take a look at how the ork codex has changed my list making with each edition, what strategies were viable and which fell by the wayside.

5th

Tournament game vs Deathwing.  Victory thanks to Deffrollas

2000 points
95 Warboss with PK & cybork
95 Big Mek with KFF and Cybork
225 15 Lootas
225 15 Lootas
315 7 Nobs with mixed equipment, 3 PK, banner, painboy (wound shenanigans)
154 18 boyz, 1 nob w/PK and BP
235 29 shoota boyz, 3 BS, 1 Nob w/PK & BP
235 29 shoota boyz, 3 BS, 1 Nob w/PK & BP
40 10 gretchin, 1 runtherd
70 Kamikaze Deffkopta w/buzzsaw
70 Kamikaze Deffkopta w/buzzsaw
120 Battlewagon w/deffrolla, big shoota, plank
120 Battlewagon w/deffrolla, big shoota, plank


The idea behind this list is you have a firebase of lootas, grots that hide, 2 squads in battlewagons with the ICs attached, and two big squads of boys that would follow behind, clean up, and hold table space.  With first turn, the deffkoptas would turbo boost in their scout move and attempt to assault something stationary first turn since that was allowed.  Usually, you could destroy something heavy like a vindicator or Leman Russ.  Even attacking something like broadsides or long fangs was a solid strategy to tie them up.  If you got seized on you were in trouble.  Going 2nd or in kill point games, they could still outflank and assault when they came in.

The lootas handle light vehicles, the deffrollas heavy vehicles. The boyz and nobs chewed through infantry of all sorts.  Usually, it came down to how well my lootas and deffrollas cracked open vehicles.  If opponent could easily take out the lootas right away or if they rolled poorly, I generally also did poorly.  I just couldn't crack open vehicles very well.  If the deffrollas were lost (or immobilized, stunned, blocked) things could get ugly.  Skimmers dodged rams half the time so they could be problematic.

It's not the most effective list for 5th edition.  Battlewagon rush was much better, Kan wall was viable, full on mobs were solid, and running 45 lootas would have been preferred (but I didn't have the models).

I occasionally like to run a SAG attached to Big Gunz, since they were almost as cheap as a grot squad for ablative wounds but offered substantially more firepower.  The Big Mek could even fire at a separate target from the squad.

Another option I loved was taking Snikrot, attaching the warboss and coming in off the back edge to multi-charge vehicles.  The reserve rules were less generous and once I had a few games in a row where they didn't come on until the 4th or 5th turn I moved away from it.

I managed a draw against Purifiers only because my objective was in the far left lower corner.

Purifier spam, leafblower IG, necrons (with their 5th ed codex), and dark eldar would beat me up and take my lunch money, but overall I did pretty well.  Fearless wounds, getting swept, and assaulting moving vehicles were a bitch.

6th

With so many sweeping changes the Ork codex was upended.  You couldn't assault from reserve rendering my kamikaze kopta and kommando tactics useless.  Overwatch and removing models from the direction of fire made assaults harder to pull off since every wound you took (or caused) increased the distance between the units.   Changes to furious charge meant a lot more units would swing before you.  The reduction in cover meant that the boyz died faster.

But many more things helped them.  Vehicles were now always hit on a 3 in assault and with hull points meant you could reliably destroy them.  High volume str 7 shooting was king.  Bikes were now natively T5, which meant missiles didn't double them out.  Exhaust cloud still gave them a 4+ cover save meaning they were better in the open.  Fearless wounds no longer existed so large mobs survived longer in combat.  Artillery went from AV10 where every glance or pen destroyed them to T7.  There was much rejoicing with T7 grots.  Defense lines meant we could get cover saves for our backfield firebase.  The removal of wound shenanigans increased the strength of lobbas so that we could snipe out important characters.  Snap shots meant you get to shoot more and affected BS2 the least of any army.  We could down planes or go to ground and still shoot.

Oy, Psyker Battle Squads make Nobs cry.  Managed a draw.

Here is my prototypical 6th ed list

1850 points

155 Warboss Bike, BP, PK, cybork, squig
450 7 Nob Biker Mob w/3 PK, painboy, banner, BCs
185 30 shoota boys, 1 w/BS
185 30 shoota boys, 1 w/BS
185 30 shoota boys, 1 w/BS
40 10 grots w/runtherd
150 10 Lootas
150 10 Lootas
150 10 Lootas
60 3 Kannons
84 3 Lobbas, 3 ammo runts
50 Aegis

Games took longer to play for various reasons, so I almost never played at 2000 points.  Hull Points meant that battlewagons were out.  The deffrolla had less juicy targets since most people weren't fielding vehicles in mass numbers anymore.  So T5 bikers with 4+ armor, 4+ cover, 5++, and FNP led by a T6 assault monster..

The lootas would go to ground behind the aegis for a 2+ cover, especially if I knew fliers were coming on.  That's why I only took them in groups of 10.  The nobs would boost up and engage anything in the way.  The only real threat was morale and mindshackle scarabs.

I stopped taking nobs in my shoota boyz squads because of challenges.  The big shootas were there to extend my kill range. Everything (except the grots) put out a lot of dakka.

My favorite warboss moment in 6th was also my last 6th ed game with orks against the new AM and Tau.  He assaulted and destroyed Pask's Leman Russ turn 2, then a squad of 2 broadsides turn 3, then a riptide and buff commander turn 4, and a chimera T5, then took over my opponent's quad gun and shot down a Valkyrie in rear armor turn 6.

Kommandos were complete junk, there was just no way to get them into combat anymore.  Deffkoptas were ok with T5, but the rokkits just weren't needed as much.  Burnas were dead meat.  I could never get them in range anymore.  Nobs on foot still required a BW to make work.  For the same price I just took the bikes for added toughness and speed.  Too much AP2 meant that meganobz were dead.  Kans and dreads suffered from the changes to grenades and addition of hull points.  Zagstruck was pretty much the only way to assault out of reserve, but I felt the points were better used elsewhere.

Massed flier spam was a problem despite the loota.  Massed AV13 wasn't fun.  Therefore, Necrons were my least favorite match up.  Wraith, would lose badly to my nobs, but usually at least tied them up for a few turns.  The annhilation barges would then usually average about 14 hits apiece (damn you tesla), shredding my boyz squads.  Fliers would then tesla my lootas and that was pretty much it.  Unfortunately for me, Necrons were everywhere in my neck of the woods.  The predominate army.

Ignores cover would shred any units that stuck their heads out.  Things continued to get worse as Tau markerlights, Eldar wave serpents, and AM wyverns were suddenly everywhere.

7th

I didn't play Orks after the release of 7th but before the new Codex.  I can imagine using the new Mek guns or even flash gitz in heavy while retaining the rest of the list would have been fantastic.  Traktor Kannons shore up flier vulnerabilities nicely.  Nob Bikers didn't have to Jink.  The boyz were still fearless in large squads.  Life was pretty good.

Rules wise, the 7th edition rulebook didn't change a ton for Orks.  I never used a Psyker but since blessings became harder to cast, things should have improved there.  Unquestionably the biggest change would be to the way cover is handled.  Namely, they decided to leave out nearly the entirety of the cover rules and instead included datasheets for the pieces that they sold.  Multi level blast templates are in desperate need of an FAQ.

The bad news is that all the units that gave me trouble in 6th are still around, and probably even better in 7th.  The one thing foot slogging boyz lack is speed, so we're vulnerable to jetbikes or vehicles with objective secured.  Witchfire are painful as they usually destroy boyz in droves.

The 7th edition Ork codex was a success in that it revitalized a lot of units that were previously untouchable.  Not everything was the most competitive, but a lot more was viable.  Warbikers, Warbuggies, Stormboyz, Flash Gitz, Tankbustas, and Meganobz all got a good enough points drop or rules adjustment that made them better.  The HQ section was gutted and crowded.  Two HQs hit the scrap pile and 2 other named characters that were previously squad upgrades were moved to feeble HQ choices (Zagstruk & Badrukk).  The Dakkajet got more expensive and less shots.  Burna Boyz got an inexplicable points increase even though with 7th they are significantly worse due to changes to their kill distance.  Kans have morale tests, less strength and a points hike but only gained the ability to be taken in squads of 5.  I'm glad I traded mine at the start of 6th.  Deff Dreads have been a terrible choice since 6th, but now you can't take them as troops with a Big Mek and compete with other units in the best slot in the codex.  Lootas were moved to Heavy, completely changing the dynamic of dakka ork lists.  Shoota boyz got a points hike and with the changes to mob rule subtly made them a worse choice.  Slugga choppa boyz are roughly the same, but weren't very good before.

List building for 7th
The best strategy whenever a new codex or edition drops is to keep using your currentlist as closely as possible and adjust slowly.  The the quick succession of 7th and the new dex, this is going to be harder than previously.

The biggest change is obviously the switch for Lootas from elite to heavy and without enough slots, something has to go.  Cybork is useless, so we can save some points there

1848 points
125 warboss, bike, klaw, Da finkin kap, BP
75 Painboy, bike
385 6 Nob Bikers, 3 pk, 3 BC, BP, banner
210 30 shoota boys
210 30 shoota boys
210 30 shoota boys
49 13 grots w/runtherd and hound
210 15 Lootas
210 15 Lootas
114 5 Lobbas, 3 gretchin, 4 runts
50 Aegis

I love the Da Finkin Kap.  The strategic traits are great and for only 10 points is more worthwhile than the other options.  I feel like the Painboy is going to be more useful than a Big Mek with KFF since it stacks.  We'll have to start jinking more, losing a lot of effectiveness of the dakkaguns, but a 3+ cover is worth it, but unfortunately only when turbo boosting.

Might as well max out the lobbas, adding a few extra gretchin to try to mitigate the low leadership.  I'm also going to max out the Lootas.  I really want to take traktor kannons, but I'm not sure how I fit them in.  The Aegis stays there mostly because it's really hard to get cover since you can't just plop them in area terrain, even though we're protecting less.  Barrages hurt before but now castling up in ruins is a death trap.

In an effort not to change too much, the Nob Bikers stay.  No Cybork is a tough pill to swallow.  Since we don't get the painboy natively, we have to use the HQ spot just to get much of a save at all, given the points.  At least now the Painboy has a 2+ LOS, so harder to snipe.  We also get a Boss Nob, so the Warboss doesn't have to take the challenge.  I'm not sure if I want the Boss Nob to have a PK or BC.  The BC keeps him cheap so mss is less of a concern.

I'm really tempted to just take a 15 strong squad of warbikers instead.  With a nob toting a PK and BP it is only 310.  Not as deadly in assault, but more dakka if I don't have to jink,  A solid 45 Str5 ap5 TL shots is scary.  Av13/14 would be hard to handle still with only a few nobs able to do anything at all.

The Boyz require the most scrutiny.  They are now less reliable and more expensive.  My whole series on how to support boyz is exploring this and I'm not sure I have an answer yet. My guess with this list is that the Nob bikers will get there too quickly and the boyz are just too slow and not dangerous enough to represent a second wave.

This list really needs more threats to either allow small squads of Boys or grots.  This kind of forces us into the same mold as Daemons or Tyranids.  The troops are mostly useless, but you have to present a lot of other threats so they get ignored.  We lack deep striking or (good) infiltrating options.  So it has to come from some sort of other speedy option.  I keep coming back to Warbikers and Deffkoptas since they are resilient and represent a significant threat.

I think a meganob list can be very good.  Tankbustas are good, but fragile and need a transport.  Maybe two squads of Meganobz in BW (each with a painboy) plus tankbustas in a trukk hiding behind them might be decent, but that represents a huge shift for me, so I'm not ready to explore that yet.

Orks vs Battleforce armies, a theory

I had a lot of success in 5th edition tournaments when I started out.  The reason was simply that most lists were built to beat space marines, but facings orks presented a different challenge so I would catch people off guard.

I would come up with lists to use for tournaments then try them out at the FLGS.  The worst thing was when someone would agree, then ask me what army I play and come up with a list on the spot.  Goodbye melta, hello flamers, hey and they're cheaper too.  Hur-dur, I don't usually take purifiers but lol, FU.  Let me dust off my whirlwind, etc.

A list tailored to beat orks can really kick orks ass.  A general list  designed to beat space marines will struggle with orks.  A battleforce list will get creamed.

What do I mean by a battleforce list, I mean the typical lists you see in GW battle reports.  Like this
Chaplin terminator armor, plasma pistol
Tactical marines, veteran sgt w/powerfist and combat shield, plasmagun, multi-melta, teleport homer, Rhino with extra storm bolter
Scouts with shotgun
Dreadnought with TL heavy bolter and extra armor
5 Terminators, chainfist, assault cannon
Land Raider with extra armor
Devastator squad with 1 HB, 1 Missile (w/flakk), 1 MM, 1 LC, sgt w/melta bombs, power axe in a drop pod
3 man Scout bike squad with power fist and cluster mines.

Essentially, every unit is decked out to sound cool and allow cool modeling.  BF armies have no consideration for focus or battlefield role.  They're designed to show off as many units as possible.  They generally also suck on the tabletop.

These types of armies are going to have a hard time dealing with any sort of extreme list or unit.  This include a 30 man squad of ork boyz.  There are a lot of points wasted in premium upgrades that are useless against orks (extra armor is of course, never worthwhile).

You know what laughs at a 30 man squad of boyz -- 6 wave serpents, 3 wyverns, 2 Thunderfires, 3 riptides, 6 venoms -- you know stuff you see in a tournament in bulk but never maxed out in white dwarf.

My guess is they felt they had to tamp down the 30 man boy squad, removing fearless, because it presents a lot of problems for these BF lists, newbies, and in demo games.  Boyz don't come with a lot of superfluous upgrades that made them inefficient on their own (once we add in trukks, then you make the unit suck). A horde of T4, with a cover save required you to kill 20 before they had to take a morale test.

For some reason, GW really thinks large groups of units are a problem.  They give squads tools to deal with orks, like flamers, heavy flamers, and rocket pods that are essentially worth less than their points (compared to other available options) against space marines.

Well congratulations, with the change to mob rule, now any balanced army should be able to deal with orks using the tools they already have and don't have to think about hordes in general as a part of list building.  With Tyranids you just kill the MCs and ignore the hordes, without synapse they hide or eat themselves.  Orks and Tyranids are just chaff anyways.

The trickle down effect is that horde orks just aren't viable anymore.  Not that it was ever fun to play with or against, but 180 orks running up the field with lootas and/or kans in support actually worked pretty well.  It was quite a site to behold, even if the paint job was only tabletop quality. That many orks did make an impressive display.

Ork boyz aren't the backbone anymore.  I'm still not sure how to make an effective list straight out of the codex.  I've read that the formations actually make the army work, but have yet to get a hold of it myself.  I feel like the army should work straight out of the box, without having to use formations since you never know what your opponent or a tournament will be cool with.  Plus allowing formations opens up the awful Tau firebase support cadre which is straight up evil to take.

Supporting the Boyz

We determined that boyz on their own are a pretty middling choice and have very obvious weaknesses.  Compare the basic Ork troops and dedicated transport options to what other codexes can bring and you really see the troop section as the weakest part of the book.

Let's look at how we can make the boyz better.

I'm pretty happy with this paint job and feel it holds up well.  Magnetized burna not shown.

Kustom Force Field on a Big Mek

A 5++ will protect against a horde's worst enemy, the flamer, but altogether it isn't a very appealing option to me.  Since it is only models within 6" it has limited utility for troops.  You don't want to waste this on grots, so let's talk about how to use it on boyz. 

To protect your models, there are a few strategies.  Clump up so boyz are near the mek, but then you're susceptible to blasts. Spread a few boyz out front, so they're protected, put everyone else spread out behind the mek.  Templates aren't as big of a problem, but weight of fire will get to the big mek quickly, although look out sir will usually keep him alive.

The 5++ only goes to a vehicle now and doesn't project a radius. You're better off with a KFF on a bike (110pts base). You can ride behind battlewagons giving out the bubble to the vehicles then.  However, you're now burning an HQ and a heavy support to bolster a fairly middling choice (boyz) to begin with. 

At the end of the day, a 5++ still lets 2/3 of the wounds through.  As an option to protect boyz, we can do a lot better.

What about Kan wall?
My reading of the rulebook is that anything between the kans will always get a 5+ cover save.  If you keep the big mek close enough, you can give the 5++ to the front rows and the kans.  Once again, you're using a heavy support and HQ to bolster boyz, but at least the kans have utility beyond just being a transport. 

Kans are weak at S7 and not that durable with AV11 and 2 HP.  If they are shaken, destroyed, or immobilized, you'll be forced to go around or over, and thus slowing you down.  If you run, you forgo their BS3 shooting (rokkits or grotzookas).

Morkanaught?
The morkanaught does project it's KFF, which gives it a huge radius.  It's still slow and can be outmaneuvered by almost any army.  It packs a decent offensive punch, but is still so slow.  As an option for protecting boyz, one again I think we can do better.

About 90% complete.  I still have some work to do on his right, which is why the photograph doesn't show it.

Warboss

He must be your warlord to call the Waaagh.  With a warboss, you're relying on speed to get you to your destination since you'll be charging straight ahead.  It doesn't matter if you lose boyz along the way because the warboss and nobz in the squad will do the damage anyways.  Boyz are just extra wounds.

Move 6", run D6". Call Waagh turn 2, move 6", run D6, charge 2D6", rerolling.  That's a 36" threat range.  Obviously, the dice aren't going to be all sixes.  With average dice it's about 26" assuming a few things 1) your opponent is stupid 2) you put no terrain on the board 3) your opponent forgot to shoot.  To put it more concretely, any intervening terrain will slow them down and every lost boy from the front, is less charge range.  Sure if you get first turn and you opponent lines up right at the front of his deployment zone, you could charge a rhino, but see assumption #1 earlier.

The waagh makes boyz useful and more reliable to charge, but we'll have to see how well it works in practice.  Obviously if you go 2nd you're going to suffer 2 rounds of shooting and probably overwatch.

Despite this, I still think it's the strongest option we have so far.  Since the waaagh affects all your units, you need to target saturate the board so the boyz are ignored.  We need to determine what

Yikes, he looks pretty rough.  The first character I ever completed.  Suffers from finecast warping and poor color choices.  Needs to be redone.

Painboy

For only 50 points you get FNP for the unit.  I think this is a superior choice over the KFF.  You still get the KFF, but can stack with a cover save or 'ard boy armor and it works in CC.  Str8 and above, especially the ignores cover variety (e.g. riptides with markerlight support, AM orders). For the reasons listed above, the KFF isn't going to help you a whole lot either.  We have to force the opponent to use these shots on units other than boyz.

In my opinion, it's the best way of keeping the boyz alive.  You're only using 1 HQ to support them.  This is an option we can work with to make boyz better.  the real question is if it is worth keeping the boyz alive, or using the painboy on a more worthwhile unit like bikes, meganobz, etc.

Weirdboy

The psychic powers very solid shooting options.  Witchfire still let you run and assault afterward, even at a different unit.  His biggest drawback is that at Ld7, the perils table is devastating to him.

A lot has to go right for 'eadbanger to work, my choice for most useless psychic power in the game.  Roll to cast, not get denied, roll to hit at BS2, then a T4 model is still fine 2/3 the time.  If it was a casualty, then we're talking, but a straight 1 wound (with invulns) isn't going to mean much.  The blasts at BS2 are 'hit or miss' *snicker*.  Killbolt is a beam and power vomit is a template -- now we're talking.  Very strong shooting for orks and you can even pop multiple vehicles, but not necessarily force multipliers, but can get you out of some tricky situations.  The real problem is WC2, which takes 4-5 dice to get off reliably, which is a really high chance of perils.

Da Jump can get your boyz there quickly, but the larger the squad the riskier it is. You also don't want to get caught in the path of pie plate or template bunched up like that.  From a practical standpoint it will slow the game down, but at least you can run afterward.  Warpath is clearly the top choice for a squad of boyz at plus one attack for only WC1.  A squad of 30 boyz is rolling 150 dice on the charge... hmm... Adding in Mad Dok for rampage and send them up against an AM blob for another D3 attacks.  This is a max roll of 240 dice.  You would literally need a bucket to roll that many (provided you have enough, I don't).

I won't discuss sanctic because you'll almost certainly perils and you can't generate enough WC to get off WC3 powers reliably.

The big issue is of course that you have to roll for your ork powers.  This is better than previously when you had to roll each turn.  You can make it work as long as you have 2 plans for the weirdboy.  If he rolls da jump or warpath, put him with the boyz (or ard boyz), but for shooty powers he can stick with another short ranged unit like flash gitz or add utility to meganobz, burnas, and tankbustas.

Snikrot

Can't support the boyz directly since he can't join them.  I don't see any reason to ever take him as a standalone HQ for the same reasons that Death Company Tycho is never seen.  At least the Masque can shut down a unit staring her in the face. 

Essentially, you join Snikrot to kommandos , come on from any board edge, wait a turn then assault.  You get a decent cover save, but you announce your intentions when you take him.  I'd rather not rely on my opponent being dumb and would rather tell them what he does anyways.

Zagstruck

Has the bellowing tyrant for a warlord trait, which lets you reroll morale tests.  For only 65pts it's not the worst thing you could do.  What kills him is that you lose out on the Waaagh if you take him, since he isn't a warboss.  You lose the run and assault for any stormboyz units too.  Not worth it.

Zhadsnark Da Rippa

I won't get into the other FW characters, but he is an interesting option if FW is allowed, since he makes bike squads into troops like Wazdakka used to and can use his PK at init.  He needs an FAQ badly and I wouldn't use him until he gets it since his entry still refers to Big Gunz and he has the exhaust cloud special rule. 

Ork bikes as troops are studly.  For 310 you get 15 troops plus a Nob w/PK.  They can jink for a save and turbo boosting is encouraged This is a unit worth protecting with a painboy.  It can assault, is durable, and can shoot.  It's unlikely to be allowed.  FW probably won't put out an FAQ for him and if they do, he will certainly lose his FOC swapping ability.  It was a fun thought though.

Conclusion

I left out Badrukk and a Big Mek with SAG because they don't directly improve boyz since they are shooty units, so I'll cover them in my look at dakka.

Another option is to tank wounds with a big mek or warboss in power armor.  I just don't think it's worth it for basic boyz since it slows them down too much.

After all that, it comes down to painboyz and warbosses.  Really, a 2nd warboss is only ever worth it if you want to take mega armor and da lucky stixx.  The warboss should be your warlord (for waagh) and should take Da finkin' kap (for the strategic trait).  That leaves a painboy as the obligatory 2nd HQ if you want to make boyz work.