Given the age of the Chaos Daemon codex, it isn't in terrible shape. Even after the advent of the super powered codexes that have arrived in 2015, it still manages to hold its own. Throughout 6th it was FMC spam and 2++ rerollable that were the power builds. Since 7th, we have gained a strong mechanic in summoning and are the masters of the psychic phase. With Be'Lakor to give out invisibility and/or Fateweaver it can be a grand tournament winning army.
Despite being the 2nd oldest codex, it manages to be much better than many newer codexes such as the pitiful Blood Angels (Flesh Tearer taxi service), the squabbling orks (Zhadsnark or gtfo), and the woeful Dark Eldar (webway portals with as much as Eldar as possible). While the Inquisition codex came after the Daemon 'dex, it was a pretty basic cut and paste job from the 5th edition Grey Knight codex that came out in 2011 with some basic relics and warlord traits included. The Chaos Marine codex is in worse shape, by far, but at least it has decent forgeworld to shore it up (Fire Raptors, Sicarans, Rapiers, Blood Slaughterers, Hellblades, Typhon). Daemons don't get a lot of help from Forgeworld, have no formations (excluding Khorne Daemonkin) and top lists still rely on the pure codex within a CAD.
The builds are still fairly limited with a lot of psychic dice, FMCs, and flesh hounds dominating. I would love to see a codex with multiple builds or at least a build per god. Some units certainly need shoring up in order to ever see the table top. I would love to see more units become viable just so I have the opportunity to paint them since they are, by far, my favorite the paint. Let's see how we can fix each unit and rule.
Rules
Daemonic Alignment - A good idea in practice and understandbly prevents mixing gods in the same unit. However, it should allow mixing cross codex with marks and KDK.
Daemon of Khorne - GW has a hard on for Furious Charge giving it to Khorne daemons and Blood Angels. Something about blood makes 40k denizens stronger when making a charge. If it was still +1 init it would be decent. Going away when making a disordered charge sucks too. Let's bring that back and suddenly so many more Khorne units become viable.
Daemon of Tzeentch - Needs a full rework. Since psychic tests are no longer on leadership, they need a better psychic boost. Success on 3+ seems too strong, immunity to perils or even +1 to the perils roll would be nice.
Re-rolling 1s is too prone to abuse. I always like the idea of re-rolling 2s instead, but that might cause some confusion. The Chaos marine +1 to invulns doesn't seem game breaking.
Daemon of Nurgle - Defensive grenades and shrouded are quite nice. Slow and Purposeful seems punishing. If they had some heavy weapon options it would be worthwhile.
Daemon of Slaanesh - Fleet, rending, and extra run are beautiful abilities. I wish the 6" run extended to walkers and beasts as well, not just the cavalry.
Daemonic Instability - Straight up fearless is much better. Daemons can be a horde, but they aren't exactly tough to kill. All it really does is punish the deamon player when their numbers get low. I've never rolled double 1s that I can recall.
Warp Storm - Too much rolling for not enough in-game effect. It's also too prone to being forgotten. It's also not balanced at the extremes. Rolling a 2 on the table can easily lose you a game. I've had a 300 pt Deamon prince go poof turn 1 in a 1500pt game because of it and lost. I've never won a game because I got 2d6+3 daemons from rolling double 6s. It may be my memory, but I feel like I've rolled -1 to my invul at a 5 to 1 ratio compared to +1 to my invuln. Losing half your survivability is much worse than gaining 33% more survivability. The only times I've ever rolled Daemonic Possession have resulted in nothing. Overall, it's been a pain in the ass that I hate. Drop it entirely.
Upgrades
Too many upgrades are 10 points, only a very few at 5pts. Considering most of the units have costs that aren't nice round numbers, we often end up with unused points. It probably doesn't make a difference, but it always feels wrong to leave points on the table. We need upgrades that aren't 5 or 10 such as 8, 4, 1, etc. Some items just aren't worth the cost. It would be nice if more units got options like Plague Drones.
Icons of Chaos - Just too expensive at 10pts. Only 5 points is more than enough
Instruments - Too expensive for limited utility. They should just come with it. At 1 point I would consider it. At 5 ponits, it needs to let me re-roll a unit's reserve roll.
Gifts - Rolling is a tough mechanic especially when there is such a large disparity between some of the gifts. The easiest solution would be to just cost them appropriately at two levels- one for MCs another for MCs. At least the result 0 options are solid, but what would be even better is defensive options at 0 or just defensive upgrades in general.
Lesser Gifts - I rarely ever even bother rolling on this table and instead just take the option 0 of etherblade or axe. Corrosive breath is really the only gift worth rolling for, depending on the army you face.
Greater Gifts - For heralds and squad upgrades, they're not as useful as the melee upgrades since they're already protected in a unit. For MCs rolling for 2 greater gifts is a must.
Exalted Gifts - The only reason I ever roll on this table is to see if I can get result 1, which gives a free lesser gift. Other than the gift that gives rage+rampage, I wouldn't pay 30points to choose any of these gifts. The main problem is that a few are good for heralds, some for Daemon Princes, some for Greater Daemons but you don't want to pay 30pts for something that isn't worthwhile.
More importantly, they're all strictly worse than the greater gifts, which help increase survivability, which is the biggest issue for most greater daemons. I don't need my Keeper of Secrets to be more killy, I need it to not die to a couple of storm bolters.
The Hellforged artifacts ('artefacts' be damned) are the only reason to take exalted gifts. The doomstone sucks, but the Grimoire and Portalglyph are stellar.
The Grimoire requires a roll each turn 3-6 gives +2 to your invuln save, but on a 1-2, is -1 to your invuln. I've tried to run this with seekers. They are terrifying with a 3++ invuln. However, if they fail and get stuck with a 6++, they are complete toast. It's just too unreliable for my taste. The infamous Screamer star relies on Fateweaver's re-roll to help mitigate this, but that's an awfully high cost. I'd rather run Be'Lakor and try for invisibility. Nevertheless, this is one of the few things I don't want changed.
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| Sofia the Portalglyph |
I also don't want the Portalglyph changed other than to add some clarity to it's rules or to give it different options. As it stands, it's pretty cool, giving D6 troop models on a 4+, with pink horrors being the most used choice just for the extra WC. My favorite trick to roll on Malefic, get possession, then turn them into a greater daemon (almost always a GUO). Please don't change this.
HQ
Skarbrand - He's just too slow. He needs a 9-12" movement at a minimum to be viable. His charges need to be more reliable. Give him the 6"+D6" charge range bloodletters can get from a banner.
Fateweaver - Very good at ensuring the grimoire of true names goes off and for ensuring you don't get borked by the warp storm table. If we rework both of those, Fateweaver loses a lot of utility. Still a ML4 psyker but with a weak stat line. With all the psychic madness around, an immunity to perils or succedding on a 3+ wouldn' the out of line. Probably still in need of a points drop though.
Ku-gath - Rather weak in his current incarnation. You don't get much over the normal GUO and lose out on the good options. Need to be able to buy gifts at a minimum or come with a balesword. Let him pick his power from Biomancy as well.
If he could make nurgling swarms again, that would take him most of the way towards viability.
Slaanesh Named Greater Daemon - This actually needs to exist. Zarakynel is IA13 isn't very good and quite expensive. A wraithknight is less than half the points and almost as good. For Slaanesh, more fast attacks aren't going to help, they need some sort of bubble effect. A named greater deamon could do that. How about a 12" dirge caster effect (no overwatch), the ability to control an enemy unit (like the 6th psychic power puppet master), remove ATSKNF, or built-in quasi-invisibility. There are so many ways to go with this.
Slaanesh has so many more aspects that haven't been explored such as excess, gluttony, sloth, temptation of riches.
Bloodthirster - Just got a solid update that makes them very viable, in the KDK codex because they can easily get FNP. Adjustments to the way gifts work would help. An option for 2+ armor would be nice for, say 35pts. Most importantly, they need to be S7, because they just look like it. They also need some way to be a little more reliable on the charge such as the 6"+D6" charge or the mini-fleet of 'ere we go (re-roll 1 dice when charging).
Most importantly they need to be able to come in from deep strike in glide mode, instead of always in swoop.
Lord of Change - The best of the greater deamons. They could use some tweaking to the Daemon of Tzeentch rule, but are otherwise in the best shape. If anything, maybe give them access to other psychic disciplines plus changes to the Tzeentch table (see Herald of Tzeentch entry below).
Great Unclean One - The GUO really needs a new model, although this is the easiest to find suitable replacements either from forgeworld or 3rd parties. A solid GD. Could use FNP(5+), but not strictly necessary. My only gripe is that they are too dependent on good rolls on the biomancy table. At least give them re-rolls.
I think a useful ability (or psychic power) would be for them to appear from a dead body. Take a toughness test, if failed, the GUO appears within 6". It would help make up for a lack of mobility.
Keeper of Secrets - By far the weakest of the greater daemons, the KoS needs a major overhaul. Considering what a sickening amount of firepower and survivability you get out of a riptide for +10 points or a Dreadknight with teleporter and greatsword for the same price shows how weak this entry is. They bring nothing you can't get basically anywhere else in the codex for more effect and cheaper. Both of those get 2+ armor and 5++ (with abilities to increase it) while the KoS is SoL with a 5++ only relying on greater gifts to get anything.
My first choice would be to give them bubble effects, specifically around creating survivability by reducing overwatch or increasing dodging ability (better invuln). Giving out re-rolls to wound for Slaanesh units within 6" or 12" would fit the theme as well. They're faster than Skarbrand, but only a little. Some sort of mega run would go a long way towards replicating what this unit is supposed to be. Jetbikes turbo-boost 24" and no one sees them as a problem. The keeper should be able to run more than 12" or even run then assault.
Daemon Princes - One of the staples of the codex, especially when moved to Heavy Support. There is so much S10 or D shooting now that they can be a liability given their massive points cost. First and foremost, Daemon of Tzeentch is way too expensive at 25pts, in fact all of them are overpriced except for Daemon of Slaanesh.
They lost so much when they couldn't assault after flying, which was probably too good. Having to stand around holding their dicks for a turn and getting shot to shit sucks ass too.
First, they need grenades. Second no ID from S10 or D, only from force. Third, and finally, they need to be able to drop out of flight, not move, and still assault (12" threat radius from where they start the turn). A few more shooting options wouldn't hurt.
Heralds
Herald of Khorne -The khorne all-star, especially with some flesh hounds. An absolute challenge monster. As discussed the lesser gift table needs an overhaul. The lesser locus of abjuration needs to be only 5 points for adamantium will. In fact, all the locuses could use a 5 point reduction.
The Blood Throne is good, but too expensive. The usual benefit of chariots is to tank wounds on the model if needed (which is stupid, the shooter should choose who to target), but it doesn't help much here with only a 5++. The chariot needs to give 3+ armor to the herald or the chariot needs to be cheaper by 20 points.
Herald of Nurgle - A solid herald with a movement problem. The palanquin doesn't cut it. ALLOW A HERALD OF NURGLE TO TAKE a PLAGUE DRONE!!!! Give the herald at least +1 wound and attack and change type to jet-pack cavalry. For 50 points, this seems about right.
The locuses, except for Fecundity (FNP) are weak, especially the exalted. I'd even be happy with lesser/greater/exalted being FNP 6/5/4.
The nurgle table is by far the best of the god tables. Stream of Corruption would be nice to have the option to cast as WC and gain torrent. Rancid Visitation is a bit weak for WC2, but the other powers are fine as is.
Herald of Tzeentch - A solid summoner. They need more psychic tables to roll on and a better god table. Divination just isn't the table it used to be.
Flickering fire is weak, but not too far off from being useful as a
primaris. If warpflame didn't give fnp it would a
power used significantly more. Tzeentch's firestorm is an awful power.
The ork bubblechucka is rightly derided as a poor choice, but it's
miles better than this, since you don't risk perils, get an inverse AP,
and it's large blast with longer range. I'd settle for a bubblechucka
shot. Bolt of change is decent, but once again warpflame is holding it
back with the potential to give out multiple FNP to each unit. Infernal
gateway is woeful for a WC2 power, just give me a WC1 TL multi-melta to
help daemons against armor.
The locuses are so bad though. More blue horrors just means you die more, strength D6 is not useful for a unit that doesn't want to be anywhere near close combat. Only the exalted locus for +1S on psychic powers is useful, but not with most powers being random strength to start with.
Herald of Slaanesh - Steeds need to grant +1T, see my entry below for Seekers. Otherwise, heralds of Slaanesh are a solid choice. The exalted locus is the tits granting rerolls to hit plus you pick who you get to challenge. The locus of grace is a necessity on a steed to avoid killing youself, which is a bad game mechanic. Not as killy as a Herald of Khorne nor as survivable as the Herald of Nurgle. More of a force multiplier, which is fine by me.
The chariots are garbage. I don't know what to say about them. Way too fragile to be useful and they don't pack enough of a wallop. I'm not sure what you target with it, guardsmen? Maybe give them shred and the ability to jump out of the chariot once destroyed.
The Slaanesh table is underwhelming. Acquiesence is the only power I'm interested in and needs to be the primaris, everything else can be fully replaced.
Skulltaker - No one ever takes him in favor of a normal herald. Probably just needs a points drop of 20-25 to be about right.
Karanak - Rending would go a long way. His best attribute is that he gives you hatred plus the locus of fury. Really, he's just 2 flesh hounds plus 2 locuses, so he's still a little expensive. His scout would be worthwhile if bloodcrushers were good (see below).
The Changeling - Yikes, this is terrible. Challenges suck and you don't want your horrors near combat. So we could give him options such as the ability to be a jump character and go with flamers or a disc option to go with screamers. He would still need to be able to mimic someone within the same battle, not just base to base.
Alternately, we could re-work him entirely so that he can use a power from anyone within 12" of him, but that unit doesn't get to cast, like a mini conclave librarian.
The Blue Scribes - Independent Character and an extra wound. Otherwise, they're just too fragile to take. It would be nice if they didn't take up an HQ slot and could be taken as 1 of the 4 heralds in a slot.
Epidemius - His buff needs to have a greater range, 6" isn't cutting it. At least 24" if not table wide. He'll see usage again.
The Masque - Needs to be able to be taken in the Herald slot, instead of her own HQ slot. Gift options would be nice. Most importantly, she should be an IC. She's too fragile on her own. I'd even settle for her dances requiring some sort of leadership test (at a penalty), as long as she doesn't have stand around and die immediately. Right now a single 5 man combat squad in rapid fire range or 2 TL heavy bolters kill her outright.
Troops
Bloodletters - The worst of the troop choices in the book. They kill space marines just fine. Substantially better in the KDK book because they are fearless and can get FNP readily, which increases their survivability, which is currently their main draw back. They should probably be T4, which would be the easiest fix. Bringing furious charge back to +1init would go a huge way towards making them viable.
The banner of blood gives them a charge range of 6"+D6", which is solid, but a bit pricey for one use only. Icons should be dropped to 5pts, then the banner of blood should be 15pts and the banner works for every assault.
Pink Horrors - The most typically taken troop choice and already very solid. A fix to the Tzeentch daemon rules will help, but more importantly, make the Tzeentch Psychic table actually work rolling on or remove Psyhic focus altogether. It's just too random and warpflame is a terrible rule that makes shooting attacks from the Tzeentch table too risky. This will allow them flexibility other than hiding in the back and summoning. BS4 would be a welcome boon.
The banner isn't great, allowing a few extra hits when casting a witchfire, which has the chance to be denied or the test failed, making it a low ceiling proposition to begin with. Maybe the banner is how we can increase to BS4 for the squad, giving them more reliability when shooting.
Plaguebearers - Are already in decent shape, but lack a real role in the army. They're mostly good for being tougher than average, but the backfield scoring unit role is now filled by pink horrors summoning other units. Plaguebearers have touch of rust, which is nice, but at S4, most vehicles are already glanced on a 6. The biggest downside is that they no longer re-roll to hit against T4 because of the changes to poison. Simply bringing that back would be huge and make them actually a threat again. Maybe bring back the necron scarabs entropic touch, but only on 6s, so it reduces the AV of a vehicle, making it easier to damage afterward. Alternately, allow them to have a grenade with this power, even at 1-2ppm it would be a solid addition and give them a clear role in the army.
All the banners are one time use, but for 20 points is awfully steep (considering the limited usability of icons). Getting poison (2+) is nice, especially with the fix to poison re-rolls above, but what would be even better is armourbane, even if it is one use only. They're still only T4 with 1 base attack, but it makes them much more reliable in taking down a simple rhino or tank that got too close.
An alternate option would be to allow them to take a heavy weapon to take advantage of that slow and purposeful. Something like an artillery piece would fit in nicely.
Daemonettes of Slaanesh - The 2nd most popular troop choice and probably the most popular summoned troop, daemonettes are solid. Considering I built a whole army around them, they better be. They still lack in one major area -- assault grenades. They're supposed to be lithe and graceful, they certainly shouldn't drop to I1 just because of some rocks in the way. I'd even take a point increase to 10ppm for this. It's the biggest weakness of a Slaanesh army. The dirty secret to defeating Slaanesh is to just stand in cover and shoot them until they assault you, then easily kill them before they get to swing.
The banner could be one way to add assault grenades, even at 20 points, though 15 would be better. The current banner is the best of the bunch, so I would prefer not to have to sacrifice it and would rather the grenades be built in. At it's cost though, it might not get you very much. Against most units, it does provide benefit, but I'd rather it be a straight -3WS (obviously, but would even take -2WS for 15points.
Nurglings - Cheap swarms with as many wound as a daemon prince and they can go to ground for a 2+ cover save, what's not to like. Well, the proliferation of S6 shooting from Eldar is pretty devastating as is tau ignores cover and torrent flamers. Eternal warrior is too much to ask, but makes sense against single shot weapons or melee attacks. I think they would then need a points bump up to 20-22 or so to go along with mini-EW.
Elites
Bloodcrushers - Fairly simple changes are needed to take them back to good from their current incredibly underwhelming state. They need to be T5 like a proper monstrous cavalry and get a 3+ armor. As it is they are outclassed in every way by thunderwolf cavalry.
Flamers of Tzeentch - Another unit hurt by warpflame. Their previous incarnation with AP2 flamers was too strong, but in a game where Wraithguard get D flamers for 32ppm, AP2 flamers aren't even OP anymore. I would be nice if they had two fire modes to represent how they look. Mouth - Assault 1 S4, AP2 or Hands - Assault 2 S3, AP5.
Beast of Nurgle - Another unit hurt by the change to poison, since they no longer get the rerolls to wound. They're actually bigger than spawn, so T6 would be suitable at 52 ppm. With no AP, they get stung by daemonic instability too much. If we had a faster herald option (like on a drone) we could mitigate a lot of these concerns.
Fiends of Slaanesh - Another sub-par Slaanesh unit. If you need S4 for Slaanesh, you're better off with furies. Since psykers don't test on leadership for powers anymore, Disruptive Song is mostly uneventful. At least make it stack, impose -1 when taking the test instead, or cause perils on any double.
Soporific musk causes a -5 init penalty when you charge a unit. This is actually a bad-ass combo with the witstealer sword, forcing almost everything to start taking wounds until they roll a 1. Otherwise, it isn't that useful, since at I6 you're going first anyways, unless of course you have to go through terrain, which I've already covered as Slaanesh's greatest weakness, then you merely go at the same time as someone else.
At only 3 attacks at S4, you aren't killing much more than seekers, which are better and faster. Scout would be a big help. They need more killing potency such as shred or Ap3 to start with.
Fast Attack
One of the best slots of any codex. Not as much tweaking here.
Flesh Hounds - A great unit, but better done in KDK because of FNP and fearless. I'd take 1 of those options and be happy.
Screamers of Tzeentch - The real anti-tank heavy lifters of the codex. Lamprey's bite could use a bump to S6, but otherwise is fine. Rending on slashing attacks would be fitting.
Most importantly, I forget they have jink. I just need to remember that more often since, unless I've got a herald shooting a witchfire, it makes no difference if they jink or not. Stealth would represent the fluff as well. Overall though, they're solid as is.
Plague Drones - Just a tad too expensive. Really, the biggest change would be to allow heralds on drones.
Seekers of Slaanesh - Need a +1 toughness bonus like other cavalry, even if it bumps them to 13 or 14ppm. The heartseeker needs to be able to take a locus of grace, otherwise they die too easily to movement.
Furies - They need models that aren't from the 80s. They're a decent, but forgotten choice. Not sure why there is a 5pt tax on them though. They're a decent herald escort for dirt cheap, just outclassed by the 4 units above.
Chariots - The only thing this kit is useful for is herald bits.
Heavy Support
Soul Grinder - A solid entry as is, but some of the options could use tweaking. A warpsword should drop to 15 pts max. Daemon of Khorne needs to do something. Right now it only effects you if you take the sword or lose your claw. How about make it BS5? It would make warp gaze worth taking, if it had a points drop. Tzeentch is reasonable, but not terribly useful at 5pts. Nurgle seems about right, but 15 is too expensive for Slaanesh unless we could run 6"+D6".
Why are daemon engines worse in combat and slower than marine machines. I think they should be WS5, not 3 and at least I4. Right now, a regular old dreadnaught will often kill a soul grinder before they get to attack.
Skull Cannon - The only way to get assault grenades, which is bollocks. More things need assault grenades or the whole mechanic needs to change. Ignores cover is nice against jink, but otherwise AP5 is too low. Ordnance or pinning would be a nice touch. More importantly, it needs to not be open topped.
Burning Chariot - The fix to heavy weapons on chariots helps, and warpflame is still holding it back but most importantly the short range and fragility is killer. Blue fire needs 36" range and it needs to be able to split fire.
Chariots - Not these pieces of shit again.
